It has been very validly pointed out that I have been loosely using names of castes in the blog and that this can potentially drive a wedge among people. That would be against what I am aspiring for, unity among people. This has been pointed out by Pramod and I am putting his comments here and changing the post which he says is doing the damage.
@Satish: "Ironically, today it is the Reddys and the Velamas who kept people in Telangana unempowered , who are arguing for a separate Telangana, so that "we can rule ourselves". A direct quote from your blog Satish. A significant number of those two communities has kept itself away from the T movement; and an equally significant number is participating in the movement. Though members from those communities do head some of the pro T political formations, and many of them are participating in the movement, however, the truth is that the T movement is being kept alive, and sustaining itself, on account of the deep sense of alienation that people from disempowered segments of the population, including those two communities that you name, but mostly from OBC's, MBC's and Dalits feel. This is the first time that the masses down below do feel that they are truly empowered, and that it is they who are driving the movement. In ascribing any credit to Reddy's and Velamas, you end up fanning their insecurities. Is that your goal?
In consistently articulating the same putrid analysis of Seem-Andhra Congress and TDP leaders, that the T movement is the making of those two communities, are you seeking to drive wedges between those two communities and rest of T population? Especially when you take what is a genuinely popular movement (even if one were to accept your argument that is is an ill-conceived movement), in which most of the members active on the street belong to other communities? Are you saying that none from those two communities is ever capable of seeing and acknowledging the past injustices that many members of their communities have wrought on BC's and Dalits?
If one were to extend your logic, what about other upper caste communities that have, for a few thousand years, nurtured and provided the spiritual foundation for essentially a divided society? Isn't that the community that SK commission highlights ( and not the community that you refer to in your post above) as having worked for promoting a pan Telugu identity and formation of linguistic states? They wouldn't have any right to be talking about empowerment of the masses anywhere in India, now would they? - Pramod wrote this bit.
I have to say that the Brahmin community has been at the helm of creating a society based in divisions which we are till date not able to break. Yes Pramod you are right about that. I have removed the offending passages from the post.
The following is what Irfan Adhmed had to say.
BTW, about an earlier post "Time we learnt some lessons": Indian and Pakistani Muslims being alike is an exaggeration at best. At the time of partition, this may have been true, but the divergence in the ensuing years has been real and significant. First, it is an over-simplification that there is any homogeneity among Indian Muslims (even on matters of faith and doctrine, there is variation), and likewise among Pakistani Muslims, and then definitely a stretch that they are alike. I've found more homogeneity among Bangladeshi Muslims than either of the other two, maybe because of a single language and relative lack of class-structure ossification. This is something that has come up with my relatives (especially of my generation): we feel we have more in common with Hyderabadis/Indians -- of various faiths -- than with Pakistanis (even branches of the family tree that fell on the other side of the border); we don't like being mistaken for or assumed to be Pakistani. Bangladeshis are much more sensitive about this matter (had a colleague, last name Chaudhry, who went ballistic when anyone assumed him to be Pakistani). Having interacted with several, I've found they relate better to Indians than to Pakistanis (of course among Indians, really well to Bengalis).
The following was written by Ravi Kaza
@Daddo : The Bengali dialect spoken in BanglaD is not remotely understood by the Indian Bengalis. Its Mirpuri dialect, which is almost like a different language actually. JFI
mine is no arguement, a statement of fact.
Anyways, your arguement reminds me of a Bangla taxi driver in London, who was on my duty for a week in Feb 2009. I asked him, why 90% of the socalled Indian curry houses in London dont call themselves - Bangla cuisine, since they are BD owned and operated? . The ingenious reply was, Sir the cuisine is actually Moghlai and India has no first right on that . Quick reposte was then " why dont they call themselves Moghlai curry houses". Needless , the matter ended there.
The similarity being inferred by u is that the religion , came into India 1300 years ago from the Northern invaders. The interrugnum is too long for any similarities to be retained.different sects are proud of their own origins and would love to retain their sectarian identity. - Ravi Kaza
I have also incorporated a change that was necessitated by something pointed out by Irfan Ahmed and Ravi Kaza. This pertains to clarifying the fact that similarities between Muslims in the areas which were India before 1947. I have put an asterisk clarifying that I am talking about what was at the time of independence.
My thanks to Irfan Ahmed, Pramod Reddy and Ravi Kaza for their suggestions.
@Satish: "Ironically, today it is the Reddys and the Velamas who kept people in Telangana unempowered , who are arguing for a separate Telangana, so that "we can rule ourselves". A direct quote from your blog Satish. A significant number of those two communities has kept itself away from the T movement; and an equally significant number is participating in the movement. Though members from those communities do head some of the pro T political formations, and many of them are participating in the movement, however, the truth is that the T movement is being kept alive, and sustaining itself, on account of the deep sense of alienation that people from disempowered segments of the population, including those two communities that you name, but mostly from OBC's, MBC's and Dalits feel. This is the first time that the masses down below do feel that they are truly empowered, and that it is they who are driving the movement. In ascribing any credit to Reddy's and Velamas, you end up fanning their insecurities. Is that your goal?
In consistently articulating the same putrid analysis of Seem-Andhra Congress and TDP leaders, that the T movement is the making of those two communities, are you seeking to drive wedges between those two communities and rest of T population? Especially when you take what is a genuinely popular movement (even if one were to accept your argument that is is an ill-conceived movement), in which most of the members active on the street belong to other communities? Are you saying that none from those two communities is ever capable of seeing and acknowledging the past injustices that many members of their communities have wrought on BC's and Dalits?
If one were to extend your logic, what about other upper caste communities that have, for a few thousand years, nurtured and provided the spiritual foundation for essentially a divided society? Isn't that the community that SK commission highlights ( and not the community that you refer to in your post above) as having worked for promoting a pan Telugu identity and formation of linguistic states? They wouldn't have any right to be talking about empowerment of the masses anywhere in India, now would they? - Pramod wrote this bit.
I have to say that the Brahmin community has been at the helm of creating a society based in divisions which we are till date not able to break. Yes Pramod you are right about that. I have removed the offending passages from the post.
The following is what Irfan Adhmed had to say.
BTW, about an earlier post "Time we learnt some lessons": Indian and Pakistani Muslims being alike is an exaggeration at best. At the time of partition, this may have been true, but the divergence in the ensuing years has been real and significant. First, it is an over-simplification that there is any homogeneity among Indian Muslims (even on matters of faith and doctrine, there is variation), and likewise among Pakistani Muslims, and then definitely a stretch that they are alike. I've found more homogeneity among Bangladeshi Muslims than either of the other two, maybe because of a single language and relative lack of class-structure ossification. This is something that has come up with my relatives (especially of my generation): we feel we have more in common with Hyderabadis/Indians -- of various faiths -- than with Pakistanis (even branches of the family tree that fell on the other side of the border); we don't like being mistaken for or assumed to be Pakistani. Bangladeshis are much more sensitive about this matter (had a colleague, last name Chaudhry, who went ballistic when anyone assumed him to be Pakistani). Having interacted with several, I've found they relate better to Indians than to Pakistanis (of course among Indians, really well to Bengalis).
The following was written by Ravi Kaza
@Daddo : The Bengali dialect spoken in BanglaD is not remotely understood by the Indian Bengalis. Its Mirpuri dialect, which is almost like a different language actually. JFI
mine is no arguement, a statement of fact.
Anyways, your arguement reminds me of a Bangla taxi driver in London, who was on my duty for a week in Feb 2009. I asked him, why 90% of the socalled Indian curry houses in London dont call themselves - Bangla cuisine, since they are BD owned and operated? . The ingenious reply was, Sir the cuisine is actually Moghlai and India has no first right on that . Quick reposte was then " why dont they call themselves Moghlai curry houses". Needless , the matter ended there.
The similarity being inferred by u is that the religion , came into India 1300 years ago from the Northern invaders. The interrugnum is too long for any similarities to be retained.different sects are proud of their own origins and would love to retain their sectarian identity. - Ravi Kaza
I have also incorporated a change that was necessitated by something pointed out by Irfan Ahmed and Ravi Kaza. This pertains to clarifying the fact that similarities between Muslims in the areas which were India before 1947. I have put an asterisk clarifying that I am talking about what was at the time of independence.
My thanks to Irfan Ahmed, Pramod Reddy and Ravi Kaza for their suggestions.
No comments:
Post a Comment